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where it was really necessary for me to discover who I was and my individually. At that point of my life, at 16 and 17, for me that was to dye my hair, wear earrings and holes in my leg warmers, but that didn’t suit the Australian Ballet. They didn’t want the dyed hair and piercings, so I felt that I didn’t fit in, but it was really hard because I loved the dance. It was my goal and I was there, but I felt like I didn’t belong.
I rang my mum and told her that I thought I was in the wrong place and didn’t want to dance anymore. But my mum said that I was just too good at it and that I had invested my whole life in it and suggested that I try a different style of dancing. I had already done jazz and tap in my training, so I stayed at the Australian Ballet for another couple of months. Then David Atkins came to town with a little show, so I took the day off sick and went and auditioned for him. He liked me and said that if I went to Sydney he’d give me work. So I resigned from the Australian Ballet. They said I could go back at any time, which was nice.
At the Australian Ballet it occurred to me that I was only going to do all the steps in just different orders. Don’t get me wrong, I love it, but I really opened up to the commercial dance, theatre dance and contemporary dance world that was out there and the more I looked at it, the more enticing it looked to me. I never ever looked back.
I got on a train and went to Sydney with $132 in my pocket. I went to Brent St which is now a massive studio but back then it was just a little suburban school. I went and introduced myself to the studio owners and asked if I could sleep on the floor. I slept on the floor of the studio for a week until I met some other dancers, then I slept on the floor of their houses for about another month until I started working. 20 years later I’m still here. I own 3 houses, I’ve worked in 18 countries in the last four years with the best dancers in the world and I feel very lucky.
What led you to want to take on the role of judge on SYTYCD?
I had just come off the biggest most expensive show ever made on earth, which was the opening and closing ceremonies of the Asia games in Doha, Qatar in the Middle East in 2006. It was the most awesome and rewarding experience I’ve ever had because of the diversity. We were working against an Islamic culture where they are not allowed to dance. You don’t understand how challenging that was! The whole world was looking at us and my cast of 10,000 people had never danced a step in their lives! I wasn’t even allowed to say that we were dancing, I had to say that we were doing movement. I wasn’t allowed to call myself a choreographer, I had to call myself a coach, as in the Islamic culture these words are portrayed as being bad. It was a challenge, but when I watch the show back on video I am beside myself with emotion because it is an extreme show, it literally looks like the biggest and most expensive show ever made on earth and we worked so hard to get there.
I came back to Australia preceding that and for the year after I said no to so much work, I was saying no to everything. I was waiting for something to come up that could stimulate me again, something that I was passionate about. Then September last year David Atkins, showbiz genius, rang me and said that SYTYCD was coming to Australia and that it was a bullet with my name on it. He was right. The very next morning the producers rang me and asked me to come in for a meeting, then a few screen tests, and I won the job.
I’m trying to keep it real. I try to cut out the cameras. All the cameras and the screaming girls aren’t real, none of that’s real. I have dancers in front of me and I know what I’m talking about. I have empathy and compassion for them but I give them criticism in a way that will make them be better dancers the next week.
I hope that the pride of being a dancer comes through on the television. I will never ever forget, no matter how high I get up that ladder, what it means to feel like and be a dancer. I will never exploit dancers, I will always promote dancers, I will celebrate the dancers. If God forbid something tragic happened to me and I couldn’t dance another step in my life I would still call myself a dancer. I am a dancer, it’s who I am.
Dancing is a world, people
don’t really get who we are as dancers. People think that because we’re performers it’s all about showing off and that’s all it is, they don’t understand that it’s the complete opposite of that. When you’re a performer you are actually giving, not taking. You’re not aware of yourself when you’re truly good. You’re not conscious that everyone’s looking at you, you’re out of your body and you give all of yourself in a physical and emotional way to them. I’ve had dance experiences in my life when the dance is over and I’ve actually felt myself go back into my body, not in a freaky way, but when you’re dancing really, really well you’re not conscious, you’re not thinking of the next step. It becomes not just a physical movement, but there’s emotion attached to it, there’s joy – that’s what I love!
Demi is a dancer who shows joy even though she may not be technically trained and perfect. We have said good bye to many great dancers, Marko, Hilton and Kassy, they are all brilliant, but Demi and Sermsah are what this competition is about. It’s about growth, that journey of a dancer. It’s about Australia latching onto you, and it’s about giving all of yourself.
So what has it been like to judge Australia’s first SYTYCD?
I’m loving it, I’m so stoked. 99% of the job is the best thing I’ve ever done in my life. I don’t like Monday nights. I really don’t like being the deliverer of the bad news, but I am the messenger of the group.
What I love about this is what it’s doing for dance - taking dance back to the people, dance out rating cricket on TV, and young boys going to dancing schools. Somebody just told me that they started up a course at a private boys school and 36 kids from the stuffy private boys school have enrolled in the dance course, which they’ve only started because of the power of our TV show! This is taking dance back to the masses. Nothing ever beats the cricket in the history of television, and we beat the cricket! It’s unreal. It’s fantastic. I’m so passionate about this show, and it’s so prevalent, it’s the biggest show in the country and it’s in everybody's lounge rooms.
This show will get better and better every year. We are the number one rating show in the country and everywhere I go people tell me how brilliant our dancers are, and they are right, but we are going to get better and better. Wait for series 3, 4, and 5. Oh my!
I would literally be tortured if I wasn’t involved. If I didn’t get the job as a judge I am quite sure I would have been working on the show as a choreographer anyway, because I would have been banging down the producer's door! I had to be involved, it’s too big, it’s too great! I am honoured and humbled to be a part of it. It’s a huge responsibility and one that I’m taking very seriously.
And I’m feeling really good about this show at this point of my life. As you get older you get better at being yourself and you know that the celebrity isn’t real. Everyone treating you like you're special isn’t real. I’m not special, I’m the same guy I’ve been for 35 years, it’s just that you all watch me on television now. The more celebrity attention I get now, the more humble it makes me. The more people treat me like I’m special the more it makes me realise I’m not. Really, I am just a guy with a great job.
How has SYTYCD changed your perception of Australian dance?
Not at all. There are absolutely no surprises for me. I know this business in this country like the back of my hand. I’ve been working professionally in this business, in this country, for 20 years. I don’t know everybody, I know somebody who knows somebody and my phone rings the whole week.
Which dancer has surprised you the most?
Demi. She’s really pulling them out of the hat. Demi in the Salsa would be my biggest surprise. She ate that up, she owned it. I had tears in my eyes sitting there watching her do that routine. Technically it was far from perfect, but I didn’t even need to talk about what was wrong with it because there was so much more right with it. She owned it - that’s what this competition is about. It’s about embracing and adopting and adapting to the genre and the choreography that’s being put in front of you, even if it’s got nothing to do with your world.
Has the audience vote surprise you?
Yes and No. I can’t say the audience are right or wrong, as it’s personal choice. But I would vote for the best dancer. I wouldn’t vote for the cutest guy or girl or the couple that stuffed up that I feel sorry for, I don’t work like that. I would keep it about the best dancers, but there are 20 million people out there that are looking at it from an audience, general public perspective. When I sit and watch it I don’t watch the dancers live, I watch the monitors because that’s what the people are seeing at home. When I’m watching the monitors I literally act like I’m in my lounge room and I just say what I think about it.
I think Aussies love an underdog too. I think this will be prevalent in our Australian show for as long as the show runs. When JD and Rhiannon failed their tango they weren’t in the bottom in three. They didn’t fulfill the choreography, but Australia didn’t care about that, Australia felt sorry for them. I felt tortured for them too. I personally wouldn’t have voted, but I understand that people did.
It’s good, it takes the heat off us for a little bit, because everyone asks us why we got rid of dancers, but I say to everyone, ‘this isn’t about the best, it’s about the favourite.We delivered the 20 best we could, now you all choose the favourite.’ I don’t care who wins. I’d like the best dancer to win, don’t get me wrong, because if there’s an international competition I want the best dancer in the country to be representing us, because I believe in Australian dancers, but I’ll sleep ok whoever wins.
Have you been shocked by the enormous popularity of the show.
A little, beating the cricket shocked me! It’s beyond belief. Who would have thought? It’s almost un-Australian that people are watching us and not the cricket, but bring it on!
What do you think is the hardest part of the competition for the dancers?
They are doing a lot of hours. They are working very, very hard. I don’t think people appreciate the hours they’re doing. They are dancing from 8am in the morning until 11pm in the evening. It’s seven days a week, all day, all night. It’s all real, we aren’t manipulating anything. Monday they choose their genre, Tuesday and Wednesday they work their choreography, Thursday they do a dress rehearsal, Friday they perform it for us. It’s big! Then Saturday and Sunday they work all weekend on the production number that they perform on Monday night. Those production numbers have been truly world class.
Any advice for Aussie dancers?
To all the dancers out there, believe in yourself. Recognise what you’re good at and promote that, recognise what you’re bad at and fix it!
I only expect out of dancers what I expected out of myself. Complacency leads to being mediocre. You have to stay on your game.
Don’t look at why you can’t, look at why you can. Life is about what you’ve got to gain, not what you’ve got to lose. Get out there and grasp it!
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